Comments for Jack's Buzz

Comment on . . . losing all hope. (Ps 143.4) by Hitch

Hitch — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:31:13 +0000

Thank’s Jack… very encouraging – no really it was.

Comment on Engagement (6/6) Disengagement Signals Abnormality by sandraraven

sandraraven — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:59:25 +0000

Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post… nice! I love your blog. Cheers! Sandra. R.

Comment on . . . losing all hope. (Ps 143.4) by Jeff M

Jeff M — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:22:00 +0000

Glad you didn’t leave the blogging world…Great Post, will be using this Sunday as we start a series on the Bible’s role in our lives!

Comment on Summer of Love – Austin, Texas by Lane Corley

Lane Corley — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 21:41:45 +0000

Love it Jack! We’ll be praying. I’d love to make a trip over and learn about that Church Planter support system so we can emulate it here on the North Shore.

Comment on Are church planters recruited? by Jim Parker

Jim Parker — Fri, 01 May 2009 01:29:22 +0000

I feel called to start of church. I initiated all the conversations with DOMs and pastors and others. I can see how God has worked many of the financial issues out for me already. I would assume no one would attempt this unless they truly felt called of God. It is a lot of work.

Comment on Finding disciples on the down. by Jim Parker

Jim Parker — Fri, 01 May 2009 01:11:25 +0000

This would do many followers of Christ some good. When I do engage the down and out I tend to do it like I am touring or visiting the zoo. I’m there looking, but not really engaging. It would be beneficial to engage, to be a part of the ministry for a long enough time for it to really impact us. Then we would be more effective at loving the people who are more like us, who we tend to be drawn toward anyway. We would also be more patient when we don’t have everything we need. We would also begin to appreciate the great grace and love God has for us. The key, though, for me, would be to spend a lot of time in this ministry, and not as an outsider or a person on a temporary tour.

Comment on 4 Ways to Limit Grumbling by Jim Parker

Jim Parker — Fri, 01 May 2009 00:58:25 +0000

I have never been successful in making anything better by griping and grumbling. In fact, the opposite is always true. I’ve also found that making a detailed list of the cause of my discontent is beneficial. This enables me to look at it analytically instead of emotionally and then to actually discern a solution. Often, after writing the problem and then reading over it, I realize that it really was insignificant or my own ego problem.

Comment on The Pitch: Writing a Proposal by Jim Parker

Jim Parker — Fri, 01 May 2009 00:53:58 +0000

I’m using this outline to put together a proposal for a new church start. I am presenting this to our church leadership team on Sunday evening. I’ll let you know how it works out.
“The main reason I have rarely seen a proposal I liked is that I have rarely seen one that made me want to reach for my wallet.” This comment motivates me. I rarely ask people for money, it is a bit difficult for me. I heard at the conference that I should believe in God’s call enough to ask people to invest in it. For me, this is the litmus test to my seriousness.

Comment on The Pitch: Writing a Proposal by Nathan Creitz

Nathan Creitz — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:00:28 +0000

Thanks Jack,

I’m the kind of person who leans toward the clear cut definitions and statements and values that you can put in an attractive proposal. I’ve done that and saw some success with church planting but since I was good at that stuff I neglected the interpersonal interdependent relationships of the body. I thought a lot about my theology, my ecclesiology, and my administration. I knew the leadership principles and the team approach, etc.

I’m now convinced that those things are putting the cart before the horse (sometimes). I’ve experimented with church planting for four years in Boston. Now I’m back in seminary and I hope to get back on the field soon. If I start another church in the future I hope to begin by making disciples because that’s all church planting is about. There’s no launch date for making a disciple. There’s no preview gathering for investing your life in someone else’s. And it doesn’t take a budget to build relationships.

Having said all of that, you mentioned that this post was in response to a question from a student. I don’t want to disparage the need for this sort of church planting. In fact, the church in Boston that I mentioned that grew from 8 to hundreds has now started another church. That new church began with 75 people, a full-time staff, and a large budget. What a blessing!

I appreciate that you see the value of both approaches and I’m not reacting against your description of a good proposal (like I said, I know how to do that). I’m just sharing a portion of my journey where I discovered how to keep the main thing the main thing (recognizing that your post isn’t rejecting the need for personal disciple-making and is simply a technical aspect of the church planting initiative).

So, thanks for letting me share my thoughts. I appreciate the work that you do and I’ll be praying for the work in Austin.

Comment on The Pitch: Writing a Proposal by jacksbuzz

jacksbuzz — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 13:37:34 +0000

Hi Nathan! It’s obvious to me that you are both smarter than the average church planter, and better tuned to the Holy Spirit! The post you read was a response to a request from a former student (he comments below). Most church planters find themselves asked to write a proposal to secure partnership funding for their plant. Additionally, a written proposal helps one clarify what, exactly, God is telling him or her to do. I’ve seen proposals from two to forty (!) pages long, and one recently that was ten pages of beautiful graphics with little content. Reading it was like going to a fine restaurant, ordering a beautiful meal, only to find that the portions resembled a couple pieces of sushi (I left wanting more). Some tell me too much, some too little, but none tell me what I want to know, which is why I should support your work.

You bring up a great point. What if God tells you to go out and start something Abraham style? Do I believe in those? Of course! In fact, I wish I saw more of them, and I think that I will see more if I (maybe we?) do a couple things differently. First, I like to assess men and women for examples of faith instead of ability to put together a big event. Second, I like to train people to take steps according to what God has told them instead of according to a marketing plan. I am sure you will agree that wisdom comes from many counselors–that’s why I ask about coaching and I think it’s a great idea to have several experienced planters look over a written proposal.

To your questions more specifically:
NC: What do you think about the churches that are getting started in people’s living rooms with no proposals, no budgets, just people living life together?
JA: Great! I love them. May they increase dramatically–the kingdom of heaven is built of such as these you mention. I just do not see many of them that last for more than 18 months. Sure, there are a few, but not many. I wonder, and I may be wrong, if the leader of that small group received good, loving coaching the group might last longer and multiply more. We are all in this together, and we need each other. You mention one in Boston–there is one like that in Ohio too, and Neil Cole has seen wonders in California. For what it’s worth, I am trying to position people in Austin to see the same thing this summer. But they are not the norm.

Thanks for your comment. Keep thinking, keep wondering, keep pressing. -JA